It says everything when 'Air Traffic Controllers' is not even spelt correctly!
When Pablo states that ''they (controllers) spend their lives talking to a lot of people who are (professional)!'' he is talking arrant nonsense - so much so that I'm not surprised he was sacked by his former employer.
In fact he's got such a motor mouth he must be Michael O'Leary in disguise.
Signed
Ivory Tower Man
''Arrant'' - Downright, unmitigated according to the Pocket Oxford English Dictionary. Utter; complete according to the Compact OED.
On a more serious note, I think that the relationship between pilots and ATC is generally a favourable one. I merely object to the sneering, superior tone of Pablo which was, in all probability, meant to elicit a reaction.
As a former inhabitant of an 'Ivory Tower' at 'XYZ International' and a current 'XYZ International' Approach Controller I can also vouch that most crews are indeed professional. On a daily basis and despite what Pablo thinks, however, pilots make far more 'mistakes' than myself and my ATC colleagues, as evidenced by the number of reports we have to (compulsorily) file. As a recent example, how can you possibly try to land on a runway closed to landing traffic (work in the undershoot) with no ILS radiating and having been given the correct runway on the ATIS and on three separate occasions during Intermediate Approach?
If Pablo had ever followed his own advice and visited a 'busy' ATC environment then I'm sure that he wouldn't have written his diatribe and anyway, what exactly is wrong with being 'over familiar' with controllers? Many of my good friends are pilots, I have a number of hours (in the hundreds) myself and my son is a pilot and there is no disadvantage to being familiar unless, of course, you want to remain aloof and superior.
OK lets get a few facts out here.
PPLs - off which I am one (and a busy London Terminal area controller) are responsible the greater proportion of Controlled Airspace Infringements and the primary cause is the inability to navigate adequately often compounded by out of date charts (which is illegal) and an over reliance on GPS. PPL's often have an extremely poor quality of RT and generally display an inability to fly their aircraft accurately either vertically of laterally. It is no surprise that many controllers talk to PPL pilots with a lack of patience as they are probably expecting an increase in workload disproportionate to the volume of traffic and some sort of other difficulty. Luckily my airspace does not see many PPL's and I will resist them entering if possible. The airspace is simply too busy for that type of aviation and even if you argue that every one has a place in CAS the mobile chicane that is created trying to provide 3nm separation around something doing 100kts amongst jets flying at 250 kts +. creates the most unbelievable high workload and may lead to incidents.
I personally object to Pablo's ridiculous statements and although we would like to help everyone it is quite simply the case that much CAS in the UK is no place for a PPL to go and Play - It should be remembered PABLO that the controllers are the professionals and the PPL's amateurs and as such the PPL community as a whole need to take more responsibility and become more professional in their actions - only then will professional controllers take them seriously.
This article has infuriated me and feel that Pablo has crossed the boundary proving only his total lack of appreciation for professional aviation in the UK. It is also poor show on the part of the magazine to publish such inflammatory articles that are so lacking in substance.
I have a feeling that Pablo wrote this slightly tongue in cheek... if not it is very disappointing. I reply as someone who had a career flying for the UK military and who is now an ATCO at TC (the LTMA).
Firstly in response to Morecambebaz, Air Traffic Supervisors may well be a valid title for ATCOs who provide a FIS or even a RIS OUTCAS. However, as Morecambebaz is no doubt very aware (if he flies INCAS at all); instructions INCAS are mandatory and the pilot must obey them unless they believe the safety of the aircraft is compromised. If that happens to be the case, then reports are raised.
This belief of a prejudice to safety can be caused by the fact that the pilot is actually flying the aircraft and is therefore aware of the aircrafts ability to carry out certain instructions (due to flight profiles) at specific points of the flight.
The ATCO is aware of a hell of a lot more than the pilot when it comes to what is actually happening outside the cockpit regarding traffic situation. The pilots and ATCOs, between them, ensure that the flight is conducted in a safe and expeditious manner. For Pablo to write such drivel is laughable and only serves to create more of a 'them and us' attitude.
As ATCO states above, the majority of incidents within the LTMA, MTMA and Scottish TMA are caused by pilots in the GA community who for whatever reason get lost and stray into CAS. There can be genuine reasons for this, however the vast majority are caused by poor preparation or planning, or poor execution of plans.
NATS and other experts in aviation believe that the biggest single risk to the safety of commercial flying (i.e. to put it bluntly - the highest possible reason for a future mid air collision over the UK) is the unauthorised penetration of CAS by GA pilots. As such NATS has spent a lot of time and money educating the GA community by visiting flying clubs etc as well as developing tools to assist the controller in early detection of these intrusions.
Members of this site should pay a visit to http://www.flyontrack.co.uk -they may find it enlightening and helpful.
Flying is a team game - some may say that there is far too much CAS, however the military actually have a larger chunk of the UK airspace than commercial aviation... something Pablo should be aware of. There are always going to be some arrogant people, on either side of the microphone.
I can fully understand a pilot being terse with me on the R/T if I do something which causes him or her alarm... the same way as I might sometime have to be stern with pilots (professional or GA - there are good and bad in both communities). However the airwaves are not the place to bicker... if you feel as a pilot you have been hard done by, get on the phone once you have landed and have a civilised discussion... both you and the ATCO concerned might actually learn something. Landing then bitching about something to your chums in the bar will not achieve any results.
Finally, back to Morecambebaz - try to visit a local ATC unit - preferably one INCAS.
40 hours to get a PPL pales in comparison to the years it can take to get an ATCO licence... pilots (commercial and PPL holders) can virtually buy a licence if they have the money to throw at it and keep going back until they are successful... ATCOs and military pilots have to achieve a higher standard in a set amount of time (hours), otherwise they are out on their ear. That, my friend, is one of the main differences between professional (not including commercial pilots here) and hobbyists.
I know that debate is a good thing, however Pablo's comments only serve to increase the divide... I would hope that Pilotweb was actually responsible enough to realise this... or maybe the owners of this forum need to visit real ATC (INCAS) facilities as well?
It is quite sad that Pablo tries to lecture about professionalism when he himself was dismissed because he flagrantly disobeyed DfT and Company laws (however ridiculous those laws may be in that particular case).
To paraphrase Top Gun "His ego's writing cheques that his moustache can't cash"
TC ATCO wrote: 40 hours to get a PPL pales in comparison to the years it can take to get an ATCO licence... pilots (commercial and PPL holders) can virtually buy a licence if they have the money to throw at it and keep going back until they are successful... ATCOs and military pilots have to achieve a higher standard in a set amount of time (hours), otherwise they are out on their ear. That, my friend, is one of the main differences between professional (not including commercial pilots here) and hobbyists.
Not entirely sure what you mean here, do you mean all pilots can throw money at learning to fly and yet only ATCOs are the ones who truthfully get their licenses? You say "(commercial and PPL holders) then later say "(not including commercial pilots)"
Forgive my stupidity here but who exactly are you aiming the 'throw money' at statement? Maybe I'm just misreading it (which wouldnt be the first time)
Morbz
Morbz, i'm not sure you will get a reply from TC ATCO as he/she hasn't logged in since August 2008 but I think the point they were making is pilots now can spend their way to the job.
Take a trainee ATCO for example who works for NATS, if they don't keep up with the course or fail any stage NATS can either choose to recourse them or boot them out, same with the miltary, if they don't make a certain milestone in a certain timeframe, they can either be recoursed or booted out, with pilot training now, as most pilots are self-sponsored they can continue retaking or throwing money at courses until they either pass or give up.
McGoo
Thanks, explained it well! Totally right there, although it does sound like all pilots are just money throwers and somehow I dont like to agree on that ;o)
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